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Post by bassman on Sept 24, 2010 8:59:34 GMT -8
Let's say, hypothetically, that you were a bass player in a band with a true asshole on the drums. And let's say that the asshole drummer thought himself to be particularly gifted on the bass, as in all other things in life. And let's further stipulate that this dysfunctional set of hypothetical individuals is a cover band (not a tribute band) that gigs pretty regularly and has been successful enough to become the de facto house band at a particular venue.
In such a situation, imagine that the asshole drummer sent the following email to the bass player:
In such a hypothetical situation, what would you do if you were the bass player?
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Post by jlev on Sept 24, 2010 15:55:32 GMT -8
Sounds like you are pretty tired of him, a constant know it all gets old.
Having said that, I would suggest using it as an opportunity. Separate the information from the delivery and see if there is any merit to his ideas, and learn from them.
Maybe you can begin a dialog with him that can only make your band better. Rise above his lack of people skills and maybe he will learn something about the fine art of collaboration.
Or you could just knock him out, step over and start a new band.
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Post by bassman on Sept 25, 2010 13:35:01 GMT -8
Good advice. I've gritted my teeth and looked for the value in the past. Sometimes it was there, sometimes not.
There is a little bit of backstory to the current situation. There has been a long running issue in the band about playing songs just like the original vs. interpreting them. The drummer, a minority of one, is strongly in the "tribute band" camp.
The previous night's rehearsal had a moment of ugliness when the drummer was frustrated that I wasn't playing the original bassline to Old Time Rock And Roll, which he considered iconic. I think there are a million was to play bass on that song and told him, for the gazillionth time, that I had no intention of being limited to the original bassline except on songs where it truly was important to do so... and this song wasn't one of them.
100% of his complaint in the email was that I wasn't playing the original bassline to songs. That's the real issue. The irony is that our cover band plays several songs that are themselves significantly different covers of originals.
The real question for our band is whether we want to be more like Johnny Rivers and create our own version of Memphis, or do we want to be more like a Chuck 'n' Barry Tribute Band and limit ourselves to faithful copies of originals.
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Post by Cris on Sept 26, 2010 0:22:17 GMT -8
Actually, it seems to me that the real question is whether getting to gig regularly is worth having to put up with a band member that doesn't respect you or your skills. How do the other members of your band feel about your actual skills as a bassist? Do they agree with your concept of interpreting the covers you play? Perhaps a line-up change may be in order.
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Post by jlev on Sept 26, 2010 9:59:05 GMT -8
Good points, Cris. It's always that: there are no perfect situations, you got to decide what you are willing to put up with, for what you are getting out of the situation.
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Post by beamer on Sept 28, 2010 9:53:23 GMT -8
Bassman, your first sentence states how your feeling about the hypothetical situation. A couple questions, is the drummer the strongest musician in the band? Do the guitar/key players play everything note for note? (probably not) This should be pointed out to said drummer.
As Chris said I would talk to the other guys in the band and see how they feel about the problem. There a ton of guys on CL looking for a drum gig.
As far has tribute vs cover band, I'm in your camp. If your in a cover band (as I am) a lot of the fun is putting your own stamp on the songs your playing. I'm with you there's more than one way to play 'Old Time Rock & Roll"
Just my $.02
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Post by beamer on Sept 28, 2010 12:46:58 GMT -8
Bassman is Marty still playing drums for you guys? Or did you get a new drummer?
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Post by bassman on Sept 28, 2010 15:38:25 GMT -8
We have two guitar players who trade off playing leads. One of those guys is the strongest musician. The drummer, who shall remain anonymous, claims to have a lot of experience but probably not as much as he claims.
Whatever the drummer's level of experience, I have less. But I'm taking lessons from a truly great instructor and have improved a lot over the past year, as a result both of the lessons as well as playing regularly in a band. In answer to one of the questions, no, I don't think he has respect for my skills.
In answer to the other question, I did ask my bandmates for feedback. One was very supportive and the other two didn't want to be put in the middle. By their behavior I think they think I am at an appropriate level for the band.
I also asked my instructor to compare our YouTube videos to the drummers written critique. The result was a mixed bag and in some cases I will be incorporating some of the drummer's suggestions.
The drummer and I exchanged some kumbaya email since I first wrote this post and will have a public man hug at rehearsal tonight. Then we'll see how it goes.
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Post by bassman on Sept 28, 2010 20:39:34 GMT -8
Okay, I guess this is what it's like being in a band. You blow up, exchange a few words, calm down, and move on. Rehearsal was fine tonight and there's peace in the valley.
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Post by Cris on Sept 30, 2010 21:41:57 GMT -8
Okay, I guess this is what it's like being in a band. You blow up, exchange a few words, calm down, and move on... So so true. Glad things are working out. |
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Post by Richard on Oct 1, 2010 21:41:37 GMT -8
Ive always had similar issues in bands.
Its really hard to get beyond some peoples lack of communication skills. Like Joe, I always try and look for the meaning of the message, however it is delivered. MOst people are not good speakers.
That being said, I have quit many bands because someone bugs me. At this point in my life, I have to get along with the people I play with, or its not worth it. I also agree that its good to put your own 'spin' on cover tunes. That makes them fun to play.
Make sure not to hold on too long on the Man hug, you dont want to start another issue...
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Post by questor on Aug 5, 2012 20:16:54 GMT -8
What would I do if I received such an email with allegedly helpful advice?
First, who is the band leader? If the drummer here is the band leader who's also getting gigs, then I'd most likely defer to him until I found another band more to my liking, soundwise and moneywise. If he's not, then I'd ask the band leader for advice and see his reaction. Unresolved differences have a way of showing up in the music.
Second, I'd kindly ask that in the future if he has so much criticism / advice to give to please tell it to me in person. In his own half-BROWBEATING email he says " I've caught you on a day where you are open for criticism." Sorry, if he's that doubtful about what state of mind you'll be when you receive it, that's why we have phones and coffeeshops. A conversation of this high order of potential offense is much easier to swallow by asking at the start, "I have some points to bring up about our songs. Is now a good time to speak?"
Certain things like criticizing a fellow musician is just something I won't do in writing. It's far more permanent and it lacks tone of voice. It also doesn't allow for interactive exchange of points of view and understanding. If we're all musicians, we can learn from each other. (Even teachers learn from students.)
As far as doing it like the record or by style goes, I've seen it varies from band to band. Copying the record has been explained to me by some as a genuine desire for authenticity. Others use such demands to mask their insecurity.
My personal take on the issue? I remember a story about Gershwin being depressed because he couldn't sound like Ravel. His mentor asked, "Why do you want to be a 2nd-rate Ravel when you can be a 1st rate Gershwin?" (It's also another reason I moved away from classical performances, especially to avoid dictators of the same blood type as that no-variations-allowed drummer.)
Then again, I still defer to band leaders, especially in times when money and gig potential is hard to come by. If they're paying well and they want it note-for-note, then I'll even transcribe it manually for them and let them see it. Nevertheless, since bands are just like any "real job" (to mock another thread), no relation is permanent and like Bob Seger says, "I used her, she used me. Neither one cared."
So happy together!
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