Why Are we Playing So Loud?

[rossduclair]

Let me get to the point: We are not only damaging our own ears, but we are damaging the hearing of our audience.

I have been taking sound pressure level (SPL) readings of six, live music venues featuring a variety of bands.

All of these readings were in excess 103 dB at a distance of twelve-feet from the speakers. OSHA along with several hearing protection associations have determined that at 103 dB exposure is limited to 7.5 minutes!

Every one of us who has played any time at all has a hearing loss along with tinnitus...be honest...you know you have it.

At the House of Hits, I took an SPL reading outside the door of band rehearsing. The meter was peaking at 110 dB SPL. I couldn't image what it was inside the 12x20' room.

I want to start some discussion on this message board to get all musicians to honestly start looking at what damage you are doing to yourselves and our audiences with our music.

Let's establish reasonable listening levels at the places we play.

Ross
p.s. I have a severe hearing loss and permanent noise in my ears. I know of what I speak.

[jlev]

Everyone plays too loud that's for sure.

Another thing that people forget about is ear fatigue, and keep on turning up because the perceived volume diminishes.

[wormdrive66]

I recently went to a metal show and one of the bands was so loud it was vibrating my brain, i had to step outside until they were done. Don't get me wrong i love loud music but damn. I also noticed that the so-called sound man was not at the board he was at the bar drinking. Huh? He would do a quick level adjust and then split back to the bar at one point a band was having feedback issues and needed help, where was the Sound man? Outside in the parking lot smoking. Now on a brighter note i attended a Punk show in SF at Slim's over the weekend and the sound was perfect not too loud you could hear every instrument and talk with a friend without SCREAMING!!!! It was quite nice for a change.

And yes ear fatigue is something a lot of people don't realize happens.

[mothermayhemband]

Mr. jlev...I agree "ear fatigue" is a difficult issue to deal with. Since I run the sound and play in the band, I'm constantly having to keep a check on that thru the night. We as a band have made a conscious decision to “set it and forget it” which has helped.

The number on thing that can be done to combat it is to shield the drums. We do it at about 90% of the venues we play.

It's difficult because places like Jan's or Regan’s or Dillon’s and all the smaller clubs all have stages about the size of a postage stamp. Even places like Louies where it’s a good size stage and room it really allows everyone to play at a comfortable level and let the PA do what it was designed to do.

For me the proof is in the fact that at the end of the night I drive home and my ears are not ringing. ;-)

[rossduclair]

Okay, so it looks like we have some agreement. What to do now. Sound Pressure Level Meters are relatively inexpensive. I also know that there is a .99 cent application for the iPod that is a sound level meter.

I would be happy to measure the sound of your band with my SPL meter and give you some idea of loadness and how you can set your levels to comfortable, non-destructive levels.

And, Joe has it correct; it is not only the amplitude but time of exposure that does the damage, and lend to "ear fatigue."

[grateful]

This is a great post idea - and whether or not you agree about reducing sound levels at your gigs, get professional ear protection! I was lucky enough to have a bandmember who was getting his audiology degree during his tenure & we all got fitted for Westone plugs. Thank God! Etymotic plugs are good, especially if you don't sing much in your gig, but singers will want the ear canal filled - the occlusion effect isn't good for pitch. Without plugging his services directly, he's the only hearing tech associated with rock'n'roll.

My 2-cents on the volume issue is that dance music unfortunately has to pop at a high volume or most people simply won't get on the floor. The fact that drums do set a high threshold that makes on-stage dynamics tough, but I personally don't want to hear my amp thru the monitors... so, like every other guitar player, I turn up. Good news is that with the earplugs, I don't KEEP turning up. Not a win-win, but it's splitting the difference.

[mothermayhemband]

It should be a requirement that every band own a Db meter and a Real Time Analyzer.

I got hit with a hard dose of reality at a casino gig where we could not exceed 95db. (drums. 2 guitars/ keys, bass and vocals all below 95db is tough) It takes discipline.

PLUS---It's hard to rock at 95db LOL!!!!

[wormdrive66]

Contributing author - Stephen Anderson better known as the Grumpy Old Sound Man



I was asked to do a piece on how to set up small and large sounds systems, but I figured that if you can't set the damn thing up you sure couldn’t operate the crap either. Instead, I decided to start with the thing that makes the noise. Yes, you muszoids!!! (muszoid: sound man slang for musicians) The overly loud crappy tone guitar, uneven keyboard patches, badly tuned drums and screaming cat lead vocalist.

You know who you are out there. You are the ones who should resign yourselves to flipping burgers anyway. Let’s face it - this is what you want to do for a living!!! Start treating it like something that you want to make money at. Lord knows your mommies and daddies have spent a butt load of money for your gear. Dig your finger out of your nose and your head out of your ass and get real.

Let’s start with my favorite muszoid - the guitar players. Now don’t get me wrong I love the guitar, I own and play many. If I had a dollar for every guitar player that came up to me after making a board mix for the band and complained that, “there ain’t no guitar in the mix,” I would be living in Tahiti. Get a clue dude! You are in a 100-person club and you decided to bring your double stack and rip it up. They could hear you in the next state. Why would I clog the P.A. up with more of your noise? I know there are some of you that think that the only way you can get “your sound” is by playing full tilt boogie into a double stack. When in a club either turn it down or buy a small 35-watt amp. Another way to not irritate the patrons and the sound man is to face your amps on stage right or left and play across the stage. This will not only NOT piss off the sound man; it will not fry the patrons that have not swallowed a bottle of Jack yet.

Start being professional and think of the big picture… and that would be producing a product that sells. When you are established enough and are playing the concert tours, then by all means crank it up dude.

Now let’s get to my favorite bitch about guitar players… their tone! Searing high end is not going to win you any friends in the audience or with the sound man. I have turned off more guitarists because of their tone than anything else. Guitars are basically a mid range instrument. Leave the high end for the cymbals and vocal nuisances. Play some of your favorite guitar player’s music and look at it on a real time analyzer - not a lot of 4k and above. These two problems really rear their ugly heads when the guitarist complains that they can’t hear the floor monitors. It’s because of the conflict with your tone and the vocals and the over bearing volume. Give the monitors some space. Learn what the frequency range of all the instruments are on your stage and your mix on and off stage will magically fall in place. The club owner will thank you later.

And remember rule Number 1... Don’t piss off the sound man.

[jlev]

Don't piss off the sound man is good advice. One guy I worked with who will remain nameless(GW) got mad and put a singers monitor feed through a pitch shifter set for a half step. Dude THOUGHT he was on key.

I think one of the keys to a good volume is having an really good sound system with a sub woofer. I know its counterintuitive but lots of power and lots of speaker lets the music be fat and thumping without having the high end blaring. We compete against DJs who bring the thump and without it people won't dance.

Having the right gear is really important. 35 watts? How about 15?? Don't be the guy trying to make a Twin with JBLs break up.

[wormdrive66]

Ok so i was asked to do a show review for a magazine last week of some touring bands coming through town. I just got around to checking out a few of the bands so i know what to expect. Well seems like the Headliner Jucifer has some serious gear issues. Here is a picture. "note to self, buy earplugs"

[jlev]

That looks just like my rig!!!!

[rossduclair]

It looks like we have some good feedback on this issue, but I want to keep it going. I personally use the Shure PSM 200, but getting the sound operator to understand what I want, and actually having a mixer that has the right subs isn't always possible.

My experience with guitar players who insist on playing a Feder Strat or Telecaster, with the volume set on 11 is enough to take the enamel off my teeth.

So, here's what I suggest. I would like to start taking a series of readings with some live bands. I want to collect some real world dB/SPL numbers with the idea of logging the numbers for comparison to to the instruments and sound system settings.

Then, I will start posting these readings on this site for musicians to learn comfortable levels that entertain our audience and will not contribute to hearing loss.

Do I have any takers?

[wormdrive66]

Well i went to the show and i guess they have upgraded their equipment since the above photo. Great opening bands that i had never seen, the place was packed the beer was cold. Then Jucifer did what they do. So they had ten 8x12 bass cabinets covering the whole back wall and a rack of stuff 9 feet tall. The first 10 minutes consisted of hideous feedback and power chords at 500db. I had earplugs in and it still hurt my head. i made it through almost 2 songs and left. Top five of the worst bands i have ever seen live.

[jlev]

Now I know I shouldn't have lent them my rig.

[nickyn99]

Mar 21, 2010 2:17:45 GMT -8 rossduclair said:

It looks like we have some good feedback on this issue, but I want to keep it going. I personally use the Shure PSM 200, but getting the sound operator to understand what I want, and actually having a mixer that has the right subs isn't always possible.

My experience with guitar players who insist on playing a Feder Strat or Telecaster, with the volume set on 11 is enough to take the enamel off my teeth.

So, here's what I suggest. I would like to start taking a series of readings with some live bands. I want to collect some real world dB/SPL numbers with the idea of logging the numbers for comparison to to the instruments and sound system settings.

Then, I will start posting these readings on this site for musicians to learn comfortable levels that entertain our audience and will not contribute to hearing loss.

Do I have any takers?

Sure - One of the bands I play in is Rogue and we will be at PJ's Roadhouse this coming Saturday (27th). Whatever it takes right.

Cheers!