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Post by mylarpud on Jan 30, 2009 10:01:46 GMT -8
 I agree with the previous posts that claim that to tip the help is not needed as they are getting plenty of tips for their services from the customers. On another note, a very wise old musician named Tom Kenny who was the president of musicians union local #13 once told me, "musicians are the only people that will give away the only thing they have to sell". Today many musicians are flocking to these clubs to play for free under the guise of a "jam". They wait to be called up to play after having signed up on a roster. Meanwhile they drink a couple of beers while they wait there by helping the bar to stay in business. How about the bar giving a couple of beers to the players in return for their free entertainment. It seems fair to me. Now while I'm on my rant, I'd like to adderss the local Sammys. For years they have held their annual award shows, the chosen bands play and give the winners are given a cheesy plack that cost the promoters about $5.each. Meanwhile the bars and clubs are making $$, the help are making $$. The paper is making $$. Everyone is making out except the musicians, who are the reason for the event. What's wrong with this picture people? Am I one of a very few who can see what is going on here? All to often in my career I have heard, "it's good exposure", I can't pay my light bill with good exposure. I have boycotted this annual event for more than 10 years. Unless or untill the event promoters see fit to pay the musicians a fair wage for showing their talents, I will continue to do so.
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Post by Richard on Jan 30, 2009 11:14:12 GMT -8
I think you are missing the point The musicians that host the Jam Session are getting paid for their services. The other people that show up for the jams are either beginners that are testing their skills on stage, or they are skilled people looking for other people to play with. I am a skilled Bass Player. I am somewhat new to the area ( 2-1/2 years ). My current band has been on a vacation so I have been looking for other gigs. I have attended 2 Jam Sessions, one at Louies and one at Coopers. From that, I have made several connections and one fill-in gig. I didnt make any $, but I enhanced my potential to make money. When I go to a Jam, I feel obligated to buy a drink or 2 (or 5 depending on my transpo ) to thank them for hosting the Jam Session. If that is keeping the bar in business, then Im all for it. That same Bar has gigs on Friday and Saturday. As far as the Sammies, I cant comment on that. I dont really know anything about them. But as far as the Jams, I disagree with your position. If it wasnt for Jam Sessions in Jumboldt county, I doubt I would be a Bass Player. I think they are great and the Bar owners should be rewarded for having them. of course, I might be wrong  |
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kennans
Accomplished Member
Posts: 38
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Post by kennans on Jan 30, 2009 11:14:21 GMT -8
Nobody believes in getting paid as much as I do, but I think you've got an inflated view of how much money is floating around, especially now.
Jams aren't huge 'cash cows' for these joints. You've got to pay the staff, pay the house band ( I drive there and let everybody use my stuff, I get paid), and the place is full of musicians, sitting and sipping through the night.
Jams do, however, establish your club as part of a 'scene', and can increase your clientele.
The concept of paying or comping jammers is unrealistic, since the majority of people in the club are there to play. Jams are not big draws, unless you've established that good players show up to play and the amateurs aren't hard on the ears.
These days, just showing up for gigs doesn't automatically qualify you to make a living as a musician. Frankly, I don't think it ever did.
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Post by jlev on Jan 30, 2009 12:23:25 GMT -8
I saw this controversy on Craigslist. Pretty unbelievable. Get real, folks. If the bars gave away free beer to jammers, you would have 100 people clamoring to get on stage.
As far as I can see, no one is getting rich on live music in bars around here. But I say tip the help and tip the band, be human about it. Do you think that the $50 the best jam host pays for the time involved let alone the weare and tear on equipment? Do the math and you come up with McDonalds money. Hosting a jam is harder than it looks, keepping all y'all happy is tough. It's basically missionary work.
Get real, people!
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kennans
Accomplished Member
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Post by kennans on Jan 30, 2009 12:43:50 GMT -8
Pssst, Joe; hosting is much easier if you DON'T try to keep everyone happy. ;D
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Post by jlev on Jan 30, 2009 13:47:48 GMT -8
I know you can't please everyone, but we want people to come back. How about "treating everyone fairly"?
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rand
Mad Skills
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Post by rand on Jan 30, 2009 17:10:05 GMT -8
Hey All- I do what I can to help make the jam work. True that you can't make everyone happy . My compensation has been hearing some great line-ups and being able to join in and be part of the creative process. When I have money in my pocket, i'm always willing to share it with others. Tipping is definately an extension of ones appreciation of a job, WELL DONE
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Dr. Blues
Accomplished Member
When he dies they'll say, "He couldn't play shit, but he sure sounded good!"
Posts: 28
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Post by Dr. Blues on Feb 1, 2009 0:14:34 GMT -8
The premise that "...to tip the help is not needed as they are getting plenty of tips for their services from the customers," comes either from never having worked in a service industry, never having been a musician, coming from a place of scarcity, or just being an idiot.
With the first two, if you've been there, you know the jobs never pay enough, whether you're pouring drinks, or serving your music. If you're coming from a place of scarcity, the stance is understandable. It's hard to be generous when today's tip money is also tomorrow's lunch allowance. If you don't qualify under the first three, but fall in the fourth category, which has grown exponentially the past few years, and you're just basically being negative, cheap or lacking compassion, it's unfortunate. As Sam Kinison noted, "Idiots used to come one to a village". Now we have a surplus of them and a shortage of people having enough to get by. Tomorrow, when you're laid off like 178,000 people last week, and working three low paying jobs to make ends meet or to send your kid to a certain school, you may have a new perspective.
Tipping the help may not be necessary. And to 90.7% of the people, a 9.3% unemployment rate may be acceptable.
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Post by jlev on Feb 1, 2009 9:31:51 GMT -8
Well put, Dr. Blues.
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kenb
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Posts: 73
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Post by kenb on Feb 2, 2009 16:26:39 GMT -8
Mylarpud. I saw your post on Craigslist, so now I will respond. The help at the bar and tips have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the musicians are playing for free. If they do good service tip em. I don't drink, (just water) haven't in many years, but I usually throw down a tip for the bartender. That's me, and if there was a requirement to do so, I would probably not do it at all..
As for the Sammies, I think you've missed the whole point of it. It's not a gig. It's a party for the musicians that play in this area. Yes someone is making money on it, The promoters, the venue, (the Crest), and SN&R, but probably the ones making the most money are the fucking parking garages. I don't see you bitchin about that.
The Sammies are cool. I have been for the last 9 years so I didn't see it when you were there last, but I can't imagine they are any better or worse now. It's just a party, and It has been an honor for me to be asked to play the various times I have, even though it fucks up the whole day because you line check in the afternoon, and then you play for 8 or 15 minutes. But it is an honor for me and one of the highlights of my life, (I'm 55 and probably dont' have a lot more years to enjoy) so don't step on it. I was also blessed to win one year, (out of the eight nominations I have enjoyed). And guess what? i had to buy my own plaque and it was a little more than $5. They only give away one per band. It' hangs in my home office, I notice it frequently
We that do attend the Sammies Awards show have fun, sorry you won't be there. Not really, I dont' care if you're there or not
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Post by mothermayhemband on Feb 3, 2009 10:39:26 GMT -8
Having worked as both a bartender and a musician I can say that I never expected tips from the band. When I was younger and tending bar I usually tried to “Hook up” the band if they were cool to me, bands that came in said hi, weren’t pricks and treated the wait staff with respect got free drinks or heavy pours. Bands that didn’t, paid full price (tip or not I didn’t care).
When I am the band, I talk to the bartender, let them know I appreciate what they are doing and understand that they work for minimum wage and rely on the tips of the people that my band is supposed to generate, and I tip them if I receive FAST & COURTEOUS service.
A concept that has become lost in this country is that Tipping is not mandatory. It is a gratuity provided to reward prompt, courteous and accurate service. If you receive those things tip if you don’t well….don’t tip
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Post by jlev on Feb 3, 2009 12:27:34 GMT -8
TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service
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jimc
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Post by jimc on Feb 3, 2009 14:38:25 GMT -8
Another thing to remember is the bar staff are the managements ears and eyes. If they don't like your band chances are somewhat reduced that you'll play there again.
When we play a gig that we'd like to play again, we tip the bar and remind the customer through the PA to tip. It's a 'you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours' deal.
If the OP doesnt' want to tip that's up to him but he shouldn't be surprised if he's not asked back
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Post by sparkygirl on Feb 16, 2009 18:17:42 GMT -8
My my! I think I'm in love. You guys are articulate, insightfull and remarkably full of restraint.
I thought you were all musicians!
I'm happy if our 6 piece group goes home with anything after our bar bill.
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Post by jlev on Feb 18, 2009 11:46:58 GMT -8
My my! I think I'm in love. You guys are articulate, insightfull and remarkably full of restraint. I thought you were all musicians! I'm happy if our 6 piece group goes home with anything after our bar bill. This place is the antidote for Craigslist haters and the "hit me up" kids. All we need is a bit more participation, tell your friends!!!! |
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I agree with the previous posts that claim that to tip the help is not needed as they are getting plenty of tips for their services from the customers. 
